Fringe and Writing

[twasadark]

I just watched the Fringe season finale (I know, I'm QUITE late) and I have to say: whut? So Peter fixed things by never existing? Then why did Walter go to the alternate universe to begin with, thus starting the interaction between the two worlds? That makes no sense. What am I missing? 


Warning: the below angsty ranting may make you hate me a bit. Please know that this is not directed toward anyone on my flist in particular, nor is it a plea to have you read my work, but rather it is just me expressing how I feel. 

It's been a couple of weeks since I posted my spn_j2_bigbang  and the response to it has been extremely underwhelming. I mean, I got a few really nice comments (which I appreciate more than anyone can ever know!!) and I figured that the category - RPF Gen piece with a het subplot - was going to make it difficult to find readers, but I didn't realize that it would be THIS difficult. Holy shit, but I think 5 people in all of fandom have read it, which is vastly disappointing given the amount of effort it took to write it.

Writing is always a balancing game for me - I have to write something that I feel deeply about and that interests me, but also in a way that is appealing to readers. I do care about feedback, of course, but if all I cared about was feedback then I'd be writing shitty, cliched J2 romance filled with kinky sex. That is not to say that I don't like J2 romance with kinky sex, as long as it's done well, but sex and romance seems to involve 99% of RPF stories and after a while I get sick of reading it, honestly. I love gen and it's the reason I got into fandom to begin with. I've read everything in fandom with the exception of Sam/Gabriel and I'm even willing to give that a go upon recommendation (I've got one of the Sam/Gabriel's Big Bangs on my Kindle to read right now) but apparently I'm in the minority. It's frustrating to me that readers are so narrowly focused on what they think they want out of a story that they won't give anything different a chance. 

So beyond the problems with categorization of my big bang, I am aware that there are other reasons people may have skipped it - they may not like historical pieces, or my summary may not have interested them, or I may be a shitty writer. Since I make my living writing I don't *think* this last is the case, but it certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibility. So much is subjective when it comes to writing and reading. 

spnanonhaven  did a post on the response to the 1st week of Big Bang stories and someone pointed out the paltry response to my story, which evolved into a rather long discussion on categories and so forth. Nothing about the discussion was particularly mean or untrue (and I appreciate whoever defended my choices in categorization and so on) but the upshot was that the whole thing made me feel like shit. 

My reaction was somewhat over the top, probably, since it involved weeping during yoga class, but it did bring up some deep-seated emotional crap that I was able to deal with. Fucking personal growth. It sure sucks sometimes.

Fandom has been such a blessing in my life in a thousand different ways, not the least of which is getting to know some awesome people. I've been feeling for a while that I spend too much time and energy on it, however, and this whole big bang thing has made me realize that if I want to get more readers for my fiction I need to look elsewhere. I'll still be here, reading and posting and whatnot, but I need to get off my ass and look for a forum/market/publisher/whatever that will appreciate the talents I have to offer rather than ignore them. 

Comments

[thatgirlsix.livejournal.com]

Hey!

So. I'm one of your readers who never comments -- mostly because I'm not very good with being constructive, good or bad -- but I'm offering *hugs* anyway. We all want to be read. Take it from someone who is NEVER read; we all wish we were. And underwhelming response can mess with your head like nobody's business.

The biggest thing? Just remember that you're writing for you. This is supposed to be fun. The rest works itself out.

Cheer up! As long as you had fun writing it, does it matter?

Happy writing!

(I don't read RPF at all, but I'll see if I can find something else to comment on then?)

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Aww, thanks, love. It's good to know that I'm not alone out here, although I'm sorry that you don't get response on your work. I'll check it out.

Yes, absolutely - I do write mainly for me, but the truth of the matter is that it was hell writing this last story. Some of them are like that, unfortunately. I really wanted to finish it and I'm proud of myself for doing it, but I'm just disappointed. Kind words like yours help, though. Thank you!

[thatgirlsix.livejournal.com]

Aw, you're welcome. And I'm sorry I'm not better about commenting to you. I'm like that about everyone, really. I read all the time, but I spend too much time worrying about whether I say the right thing. None of us wants to be the person to do anything less than love a story, you know? But I'll try to be better. :-)

Oh, no, you don't have to worry about reading my stuff. It's okay. The funny thing is I'm a total nobody in fandom, which is generally the way I like it. I'm one of those people who has somehow managed to be shy even from behind a computer screen. I actually don't know what to do when people pay attention to me. Heh. I mean, yes, any readership is appreciated. Seriously? I had this (what to me was) overwhelming response to a story I started posting this spring, and it literally sent me into a tail spin. I didn't know how to deal with it. I'm so weird. Hee!

And I'm proud of you for finishing it! I'm sorry you're disappointed. Like I said, I don't do RPF, but I'll find something shiny to comment to instead? Anything special to your heart above the others you'd like me to take a stab at?

Give yourself a hug. This one maybe didn't do it, but something else might have without you knowing it. Remember, too, that for every person out there who glomps you with reviews, there are probably a couple out there like me who are hiding in the shadows, living it quietly. I guarantee you, my favorite fic writer has no idea I exist, even if I think she's completely BOOM! You never know...

*hugs*

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

I appreciate the offer, really. I feel pretty weird about giving you a fic to comment on, though, lol. Honestly, I was just airing my angst and my insecurities and I know that it came off like I was begging for attention which I suppose I was in a way, but there's really no need to read and review - just knowing that you're out there is enough. Writing is such an isolating enterprise - as a writer yourself I know that you're familiar with that, and I guess I just occasionally need to know that I'm not alone and that my efforts are meaningful. You've helped me to realize that with your kind words.

*big hugs*

[thatgirlsix.livejournal.com]

Oh, no! No! I didn't think you were begging for attention. I think everyone legitimately feels that way now and then. You put all this work into something that may or may not get read, and it's frustrating.

Now, had you put something along the lines of "I won't post another thing until this gets ten reviews", well, then I'd be handing you a fishing pole to go with your bait, but that isn't what you're doing.

Simply saying "this sucks, what did I do differently this time from other times to change the writer/reader dynamic" isn't a bad thing.

Besides, who doesn't need attention now and then?

Now go pick up a pen and paper, girlie. There's no better therapy than writing therapy!

And remember, you may not always see me, but I'm here. *hugs before I scoot on back to my hidey hole*

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

I feel you. I'm in the middle of posting a fic that is probably the hardest fandom sell EVER. There are 57k of it posted, and as I don't read WIPs, I'm telling myself to wait to be annoyed until we post the third and final part, but 57k and ZERO comments is ... disheartening. At the least. Especially since it has over a thousand hits. :P

Oh well. My philosophy is, I write for myself and my friends, and if other people like it too, well then great. If they don't get to experience an amazing story just because they would rather read nothing but the pr0nz ... then that is their loss. Truly.

*hug*

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow - I'm so sorry about that? What fic is this? I must have missed it. Wow, over a thousand hits - that's great! I don't know how to track hits on pages - you have to put some special code in the post?

Yeah, that's a good philosophy to have. And I usually think that as well, it's just that sometimes I feel like I'm shouting into the wind, which sucks.

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

http://thepostern.livejournal.com/7707.html - that's the master list. Lol, that is also our only comment - it's from our beta. :P

OMC pov, OMC/Gwen Campbell with a side of (still very important) Sam and Dean is, like I said, a tough sell. I'm holding my hissy fit until the whole thing is up. :)

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I hadn't seen/heard of this at all, and when I saw "OMC/Gwen Campbell" I may have made a very silly noise of glee. AWESOME. Um. When will it be all up?

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

LOL. We are about 10 k into the final book, but Blake is demanding a loooong ending. So hopefully before 701?

I crosspost it, but I can't put it into SOOO MANY comms because of the pairing. *disgusted!face* Also, the newsletter disavowed all knowledge of my existence as soon as I became involved with it, apparently, since they have also stopped including all my other fic. What. Ever. ;)

And thank you! That makes me feel better. :)

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

I still haven't rejoined most of the comms (newsletter included) since I came back to SPN fandom. So, it's no surprise I missed it. But I'm psyched! Any fic that makes good use of the Campbells (and especially Gwen) is relevant to my interests.

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

Yay! Here, have some art to tide you over. Our betas rock. :)

http://pics.livejournal.com/thepostern/pic/00005hbg

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's stunning.

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

I know right!? It was a surprise present from themonkeytwin. *snuggles it*

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

I don't get the newsletter sometimes, honestly. And fandom's obsession with pairings is maddening!!

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Wow, cool! That sounds really unique! I just made a mobi file of it to read on my Kindle. :-)

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Sympathy, sympathy, sympathy. Your story sounds very creative! (I peeked.) I generally avoid RPF (though lately I seem to be straying a little...) and almost never read RPF AUs, but I will give it a shot.

(If it makes you feel any better, neither of my betas actually made it through my BB? I don't expect anyone to, at this point. Wish my posting date was past so I could move on and write something else!)

(No, I don't know why I'm obsessed with parentheses tonight.)

ETA: Also, the Fringe finale didn't make any sense to me, either. I wondered if it was because I was only kind of half paying attention the last few eps. Haven't managed to rewatch them yet to see if it was me.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're so sweet! I LOVE your work so I'd be over the moon to have you read mine, though of course I don't want you to feel obligated. I'm totally open to constructive criticism as well if you'd care to share it.

Neither of your betas made it through your BB??? I'm FLABBERGASTED. I'm so excited for yours!! And you're such an amazing writer. What are they thinking??? Let me know if you still need a beta - I'd be happy to do it.

Yeah, I hear you about Fringe. I don't think it was just you about the finale. My husband and I watched it together and we were both confused! I have to say that I'm curious about what they're going to do next season though. As long as Peter is in it, that is! I'm sure he will be, though.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

I think they're thinking RL is a pain in the ass. *g* No, seriously, one of them did an amazing job on most of it, but I think the end (or the way it was going) disappointed her, and the other, I let off the hook because she didn't realize it was a 70K-word story when she offered. I really, completely understand in both cases, it's just, as you say, a little bit of a let-down. Not their fault!

And you are very kind, but at this point, time for me to let it go, I think. It's as good as it's gonna get! But I appreciate the offer. ♥

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Yes, RL does tend to get in the way of fandom sometimes, unfortunately!

Sure, I understand about the desire to have a piece of writing finished. Revising is exhausting! For me, it's easier than writing, but not by a whole lot, lol!

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Okay, so far I am adoring this story. I'm so glad you said something. Just got to this:

You need all the holiness you can get, young sir.

and cracked up. Now, I'm going to imagine Jensen saying that to Jared any time I see a video or a picture of them.

I love your Alona. She's reminding me of Gabrielle from Xena! And your Jensen makes my heart flutter, which is no mean feat. I'm usually kind of immune to him, TBH. (Dean, no. Jensen, yes.)

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

*smishes you*

You're so kind to read it! I really didn't mean to guilt people into reading it ... honestly. I do hope that it's enjoyable for you, though.

Yeah, I know what you mean about Jensen. Sure, I can see the appeal, but he's very different from Dean, definitely.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Nah, it wasn't guilt. You just made me curious to see what the story was about, and I needed some distraction last night. I'm glad you mentioned it!

[caz2y5.livejournal.com]

i feel for you. I know how it feels when the beta can't even get through the frst read.

did they at least offer concrit for what they did read?

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

did they at least offer concrit for what they did read?

Oh, yes. One of them did give me wonderful notes, and spent a ton of time on it. It really wasn't their fault. It's just one of those stories that I couldn't not write, but now that it's done, the reasons kind of escape me. :)

[bellatemple]

Oh anon meme. *shakes head at it* I offer virtual hugs. I haven't read your fic -- I haven't read any big bangs yet, as work went and got insanely busy, and honestly, I don't really read RPF AU -- but it sucks when something from fandom overwhelms you that much in real life.

Three cheers for personal growth, though?

I don't know what was said re: your big bang on the anonmeme, but it solidarity I offer up the anon who decided to comment that mmy SPN/Bones crossover "disgusted" hir because there's "too much Bones". Which somehow turned into a criticism of my not writing my story so as to win over "anti-fans" of the Bones canon.

I wasn't the anon who cursed said person out, but man, I really kind of wanted to be.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I usually try not to let fandom get to me but sometimes it does, unfortunately.

LOL - oh, personal growth, why must you be so hard won? I suppose we would never grow if not for trauma, though. Damn it.

I must admit that I visit anonmeme more than I should but rarely comment myself. So many people there seem to do nothing but argue for the sake of argument - and damn, that was quite the heated debate about your story! Man, I'm sorry that happened. That really sucks.

Thanks for the virtual hugs! I'll always take those. :-)

[bellatemple]

In my more zen moments, I find it amusing. At worst, I've been finding it eye-roll worthy. Apparently, I was meant to have approached Bones with the idea that all the characters in it were gross and thus needed to be fixed by my mad writing skills.

I used to read the anonmeme more than I do now. After awhile, though, I just found it really, really repetitive. Still, it can be good on occasion for me. A reiteration of "everyone's different in fandom and no one really agrees on anything". As well as a nice dose of vitriol to keep up my tolerance to it.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it can definitely get repetitive. Plus, I do get tired of the continual nastiness sometimes. At other times, meme can be amusing, though. It's a double-edged sword!

[bellatemple]

Oh, most definitely. I imagine most people look at anonmeme that way, including many of the people on it (a good chunk of whom seem to spend a lot of their time bemoaning the loss of the way the meme used to be. . . .)

[jaimeykay.livejournal.com]

♥ ♥ ♥

I saw that discussion, yeah. Categorizing can be really difficult in some cases. I think it's better to list everything upfront, which is what you did, and I thought you explained it well.

I'm sorry that this whole thing made you feel bad. When you work really hard and put so much effort into something, you want to feel rewarded, and it's totally normal. I am being completely honest, it's definitely not due to shitty writing AT ALL. You're so unbelievably talented. I wish I could write like you. ♥

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

You're made of win! Your kind words have really meant a lot to me - thank you!! And thank you for saying that the writing isn't shitty. Every time I'm in the middle of a story it just seems like the worst piece of crap ever. Then, afterward, I can usually appreciate it a little more. Writing is a cruel mistress!!

I am glad that the whole ordeal helped me to do some deep thinking about emotional issues in my life, and hopefully to come to terms with them and let them go. That tends to be a messy process, though. Like life in general, I suppose.

Anyhow, thank you for being a good friend. You rock! &hearts

[ariadnes-string.livejournal.com]

I hear you! It sucks to write something that you care about and not get much response. Like you say, it's hard to balance writing things that interest you and you can care about with things that people read--especially if, like me, a lot of the stuff you care enough to write isn't romance (especially not "first time" romance). But, for me, anyway, when I try to write things to people's expectations, they kind of suck....(witness my summergen story last year, which not even the recipient responded to--and well, that's just rude!).

(I love your writing, but I haven't read your BB because I haven't read any BBs--no time, and, frankly, barely reading SPN at all anymore, for a variety of reasons, including that I find the fandom outside my flist kind of toxic (see above re: summergen))

Anyway--just wanted to jump in and say, yes, there should be a forum where your writing is appreciated, and say thank you for continuing to write gen (and het)!

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Yes, I hear you when it comes to romance!! Of course, I do like romance and read and write plenty of it, but it's not everything to me. Variety is the spice of life!

Oh, no worries about reading my work. I totally understand. I know that I came across pretty whiny in this post and for that reason I delayed making it, but finally I just decided, 'what the hell.' I'm working on expressing myself more in general in life. Yoga is teaching me to open up my heart center. :-)

Thanks for your kind words and the gen and het encouragement! I do like my slash as well. Just, everything in moderation, you know?

[irishka1205.livejournal.com]

Right there with you on Fringe finale. Just watched it on Friday actually (the last 2 episodes of the season) and while the episodes were awesome, I'm confused by the ending. Time travel never really truly makes sense. And with Fringe especially since I assume Peter will actually be back (Joshua Jackson is the male lead so they can't get rid of him, right?)

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

I was totally confused through half of the last episode - I thought they were in the alternate universe, lol. I was wondering where red-haired Olivia and the baby were. Then it slowly dawned on me that Peter had jumped ahead in time. Duh. Oh, well. I can't be brilliant about everything, I suppose.

Was the girl agent Olivia's niece Ella? They never really said but it seemed like she was.

[applegeuse.livejournal.com]

Ah, sorry bb. I feel very bad, since I saw your post for the story but haven't read it yet! It's totally on my list of things to do though. I'll push it up higher after this! :)

I haven't really been reading the big bang stories this year because I'm trying to work my way through the big bangs chronologically (and I'm still in 2008, with a few big bang podfics from 2007 I haven't gotten to yet!). I'm trying to make an exception for the big bang fics posted by people on my flist. Because, you know, that's what one does! So far though, I'm only 1/3.

I have never understood the appeal of gossipy anon memes, and I don't read them. I mean, I don't subscribe to Thumper's philosophy about only saying nice things, but people ought at least attempt to be constructive and respectful...which never seems to happen at those places.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're so sweet! I don't expect for everyone to make my writing a priority, really. I was just expressing my frustration in general, I suppose.

Wow, you're working your way through all the Big Bangs??? Impressive!! Luckily there are quite a few with podfics, which always makes me squee.

Yeah, I hear you about anon memes. Most of the people there are pretty reasonable, but there are definitely some that behave like assholes, unfortunately.

[applegeuse.livejournal.com]

Luckily there are quite a few with podfics, which always makes me squee.

Indeed. <3 Before I start one of the fics, I'll always check to see if there's a podfic of it. If there isn't, I sort of stare grumpily at it for a while, hoping a podfic will spontaneously generate for my enjoyment. XD

I'm a very methodical and organized person who hates the feeling of having missed out on something. Coming to this fandom so late, it (obviously) feels as though I've missed out on a lot. I'm just trying to play catch up!

[caz2y5.livejournal.com]

Now i feel really bad.

Im trying to finish my big bang (im in editing hell right now) and haven't read a single fic yet. Although yours is high up on the list because it is a historical piece.

At least the anons aren't saying its awful rubbish which im sure they will about mine once it posts.

and good luck with the original writing because it is such a better challenge than fandom any day!

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Oh, please don't feel bad. I'd hate for that to be the result of my post - I'm feeling bad so I make you feel bad and it's a vicious cycle! I wouldn't have even mentioned the whole thing if it weren't for the anon meme I suppose. Somehow seeing my failure dissected out in the open like that was pretty traumatizing, I guess.

Honestly, I don't know what to think of the fic discussion posts on the anon meme. I mean, people will absolutely refuse to read something because of who tops and who bottoms and I just don't get that. It seems so ... arbitrary. Or there's some other triviality that people focus on. I'm sure it sounds horribly hypocritical of me to tell you not to focus on what the anon meme says after I've just railed on about it myself, so I won't say not to take their opinions to heart (but try not to, okay?).

I actually consider this piece an original one with the Js cast in the roles of the main characters. I may have to do another rewrite of it and submit it as such to the cold, cruel world of publishers. I rather dread doing that because I've been down that road of rejection and heartbreak before to no avail but perhaps this time it would be different?

[caz2y5.livejournal.com]

I made the mistake of letting myself be pointed toward the anon comm when i wrote my first BB and I was so upset i almost deleted my journal.

But then i figured WTF do those people know? Just because they are petty enough to hide behind being anons or nonies or what ever they want to call their complete inability to face up to their own venom and vitriol that they spill onto others so they can feel better about themselves.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

But then i figured WTF do those people know? Just because they are petty enough to hide behind being anons or nonies or what ever they want to call their complete inability to face up to their own venom and vitriol that they spill onto others so they can feel better about themselves.

You are absolutely right! Good for you for refusing to buy into that negativity - I should take a page from your book and do the same. *hugs*

[urania-calliope.livejournal.com]

Lemme express my sympathies as someone who is never commented on. One or two comments on my fics is rare so I understand how disheartening it can be. I think my brain is rebelling because now I'm writing in a fandom that doesn't really exist. There! Take THAT, now I'm like a goth writer in that I'm anti-comments!

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much, love. Yes, 'disheartening' is a very accurate word. I'm sorry that you've experienced a lack of comments as well. But, wow! I'm so glad that you've found a place in which people are giving you feedback and appreciation and lol that now you're like a goth writer.

[nickelmountain.livejournal.com]

Fringe: I'm waiting to see how they make that make sense. Thus far I've been really impressed with how all the threads they've thrown out there have been woven back into the overarching narrative, but...yeah, if Peter was necessary for getting them all to that point, I'm not sure how they can just erase him. Big logic problems there. Hmm.

Big Bang: *hugs* I'm sorry, that does sound incredibly disappointing. I don't generally do RPF, but it sounds to me like you did something interesting with it. I know just from watching amplificathon that there's a ton of J2 slash out there - is there really not that much J2 gen? Why not? People who've tried to sell me on RPF tell me it's not just about teh sex, so yeah...But I guess that's almost beside the point. The community let you down. That really sucks. I'm sorry.

I know you primarily as an amazingly awesome podficcer, but you definitely deserve to have people appreciating your talents across the board.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Yes, I do hope that Fringe will make everything come around to some sort of logical conclusion eventually. I can imagine that it's very difficult to string out a mythology across seasons, and that's why some shows get so bogged down in their narrative. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that such won't happen with Fringe, though! I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

Thank you so much for your kind words about my Big Bang. Yes, RPF gen is pretty much nonexistent. I'm partial to AUs, which are essentially original fiction with the Js cast in the role of main characters, and while the stories are generally not ONLY about sex it's become a convention in the genre that they must include it. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy a good RPF piece, it's just not exclusively what I want to see. Who knows? Perhaps that will change, although I suppose I shouldn't hold my breath.

Aww, thanks for your podfic support! I haven't done any for a while. I even have a shiny new microphone that really should be put to use. I'll have to make an appointment with it soon. :-)